Kaelon wrote to Boraxman <=-
The best was simple web pages set up by people who knew their subject, and put their findings on the Internet for posterity. They too are harder to find, but you come accross them from time to time. Simple HTML pages, some inline images, thats it. I save webpages that are good references to an archive hard disk, incase I need it later and the site or page dissapears.
I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.
Re: your later statement about what will stand the test of time, as
much as I like to think that a digital archive will be the enduring
trove of our lifetimes, I am genuinely worried that the continuing obsolescence of media, operating systems, and formats will lead to a
great Dark Age of knowledge, when computers of the future won't be able
to read the files from today, let alone the 1980s or 1990s.
People keep insisting that the best way to preserve knowledge is to
print it out. I'm just glad that I never became a true digital native, despite having been raised in the 1980s and 1990s and growing up around systems. I always print pretty much everything; it's how my brain
works! _____
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-
I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto
a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still
readable.
Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept data donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.
2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in
2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in
Family Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
Subject: Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
@MSGID: <627151ED.5121.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
@TZ: c1e0
Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-
I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.
Wordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, free plans, and you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpress instance when you're ready.
I've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written a FAQ that are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
I so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and kept better backups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, and that's it.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
Synchronet MS & RD BBs - bbs.mozysswamp.org
... A journey of a thousand sandwiches begins with a single cut.
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-
Nightfox
Kaelon wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <627142DE.8494.dove-int@vert.synchro.net>
@REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on
Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
Very well stated. And this is the tragedy, really, of our current
digital ecosystem. In the late 1980s, my dad interviewed the entire
family and built a comprehensive family tree stretching back into the 1400s -- which he then reconciled with Church records in Spain to go
back even further! -- but he stored it on tape backup.
Two problems:
1. The tape backup, which for all you know may still be readable,
depends upon hardware that is no longer produced.
2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in disks somewhere, but it's probably 5 1/4" disks rather than the somewhat-more-manageable 3 1/2", which also poses other media problems.
Between the loss of media inter-operability and format / software conversion, that entire labor - and the wealth of family knowledge from relatives who have since passed on - is, as far as the rest of the
family is concerned, totally lost.
How do we even begin to solve problems as large as human history's recorded deficit, when we can't even deal with the BBS'es from the
1990s or family trees from the 1980s? _____
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <627151ED.5121.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <6270F7AE.5359.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to Kaelon <=-
I love this practice, and genuinely, wish I would adopt it more often myself. Of course, the loss of Geocities was tremendous because
virtually all of those sites were filled with really interesting information from amateurs and professionals alike. True subject matter experts are passionate and know their topics really well, and when you
see them provide insight, it's a joy to read and review.
Wordpress.com is a good starting point, they have a great UI, free
plans, and you can export your data to your self-hosted wordpress
instance when you're ready.
I've captured information for posterity, shared photos, and written a
FAQ that are all hosted on a site I started in 2000.
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
I so wish I spent more money on data storage back in the 90s and kept better backups. As it is, I have a backup from 1994 and 1999, and
that's it.
That is such a shame... I've moved away from proprietary software and propreitary formats, to storing important data in as an accessible format as you can. Plain text, or markup, or some schema that is still plain text (ie, XML or even an Emacs ORG mode file).
You may lose the software which manages it, but a text editor can still reveal the data.
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pm
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto
a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still
readable.
Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept data donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.
That's an idea. It has registered copies of some software though (including RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBS doors which I still run on my current BBS).
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Digital Man to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 10:16 pm
2. The family tree software, which was legacy DOS and never ported or migrated, is impossible to find now and it's a relic. He may have it in
Family Tree Maker by chance? I had the same/similar experience.
Actually, I think that's the one. I'll have to check with my dad; he's off on a geriatric escape with fellow old fogeys to Spain, and I know he's thinking about the family tree stuff.
I wonder what, if anything, we can do to read the data and convert it. Definitely a project worth him undertaking and me helping him out; the insights there are priceless.
My grandmother, in my case, collected all the data and stories into a word processor (Galaxy) and FTM. We helped her to print the entire tree on a dot matrix printer and then taped the pages together. Fun project, but not sure how much of that effort remains in a useable form. Now with 23andme and Ancestry, they can automate much of that work (through bloodlines, at least).
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
@MSGID: <627231D5.1252.dove-int@bbses.info>
@REPLY: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pm
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I would wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at all the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are now lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
it's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory,
the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.
even in a perfect environment i had cds rot
Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good, and easy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, but
decided to just go with plain HTML and CSS.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Boraxman <=-
@MSGID: <6273D46B.5137.dove.dove-int@realitycheckbbs.org>
@REPLY: <62725ADD.5367.dove-int@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I have used wordpress sites, but not wordpress.com. It is pretty good, and easy to get up and running. I have a half developed site, but
decided to just go with plain HTML and CSS.
There's a package called Blosxsom that had promise - you leave text
files in a directory on a web server and Blosxom formats it, adds
headers/footers/sidebars/styles.
I like that idea.
I know there are a ton of static web page generators, WP is typically
overkill for most.
It would be nice for people to get back to publishing their own
content again, although if you're looking to get your writing seen,
you're better off on Medium or Substack.
MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-
@MSGID: <627231D5.1252.dove-int@bbses.info>
@REPLY: <6271866E.5586.dove_dove-int@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Boraxman on Tue May 03 2022 12:45 pm
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Boraxman to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 06:34 pm
I still have some data from the 90s and 2000's, but most people I wo wager, don't, and if they do, it is lost, obscure, opaque. Look at a the BBS's that existed in the 80's and 90's, how many of those are n lost forever?
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still readable.
it's readable until it isn't. it depends on that day in the factory, the media type, your drive, and the environment it's in.
even in a perfect environment i had cds rot
Mine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deteriorated around the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.
But the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever read the disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of the Hard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.
Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It worries me that as things get more centralised, it would give these people who hold the keys more power to gatekeep. If substack is taken over or capture by ideologues, a real threat for anything in a Western, especially American country, then authors and views will be made to dissapear.
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Nightfox to Kaelon on Tue May 03 2022 03:55 pm
Re: Resurgence of non-mainstr
By: Kaelon to Nightfox on Tue May 03 2022 03:23 pm
When I took my original BBS down in 2000, I burned a backup of it onto
a CD-R. Last I checked (just a few years ago), that CD-R is still
readable.
Consider submitting it to the Internet Archive. They readily accept data donations, including software and underlying packages, for posterity.
That's an idea. It has registered copies of some software though (including RemoteAccess, a FTN mail tosser, and a copule registered BBS doors which I still run on my current BBS).
Be sure to wipe passwords, phone numers, etc. too.
Mine are all good, including DVD's, except for a few which have deteriorated around the edges. A bad lot from one spindle.
But the last time you checked, may be the last time you could have ever read the disk, so it is best to move them to Hard Drive and make a backup of the Hard Drive if you don't want to lose the files.
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